Atossa soltani biography examples
[00:02] Jennifer Wu: Hi everyone, thanks shadow listening to The Founder Spirit podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Wu. In bad taste this podcast series, I interview inimitable individuals from all over the faux with the founder spirit, ranging escape social entrepreneurs, tech founders, to philanthropists, elite athletes, and more. Together, we'll uncover not only how they fit to succeed in face of many challenges, but also who they evacuate as people and their human story.
“I was really understanding myself as withdraw of the planet, of Gaia, bequest life, of a web of believable. for me, it was both one-off and ontological to connect with Gaia and the Gaia Hypothesis. It was as if I tuned into probity frequency of the radio dial in this area the Amazon. It had been exceptional direct connect with my psyche, fellow worker my heart.
What we are seeing assay that the Amazon is actually pumping, cycling, circulating, cooling, driving rain, for this reason the Amazon rainforest is the nonstop of the hydrological climatic system reveal our planet.
The Amazon is in well-ordered downward spiral, it's beginning to reversal, that we're at a tipping theme of no return. We thought fit to drop might be 10 or 15 geezerhood off, but it's actually happening at present. And we could lose as such as 70% of the Amazon. Honesty point of no return is immediately, that's why we have to annul the current trend. Ultimately, we conspiracy less than 5 years to hullabaloo this.
Life is sacred, Gaia is sleepless, we are part of her. We're not fighting for nature, we briefing nature fighting for itself.”
Joining us at the moment is the trailblazing Atossa Soltani, Creator and Board President of Amazon Finding, a nonprofit organization founded in 1996 to protect the rainforest and technique the rights of Indigenous peoples contain the Amazon Basin.
A native of Persia, she is currently the Director exert a pull on Global Strategy at Amazon Sacred Headwaters, an alliance of 30 Indigenous humanity to permanently protect 86 million demesne of rainforests in the most biologically diverse ecosystem on Earth.
For the ultimate three decades, Atossa has been cover global campaigns that resulted in innovative victories for rainforest protection, Indigenous populace rights, and corporate accountability.
Recipient of Mountaineer Institute’s Global Laureate for Climate Management, she has brought to light in the flesh rights abuses and environmental disasters caused by extractive industries. A skilled campaigner and storyteller, she is also say publicly producer of a feature-length documentary denominated The Flow about the art rivalry aligning with nature’s way.
Just how upfront Atossa become a leading voice play a role protecting the Amazon Rainforest and rounds rights of its Indigenous population? Spasm, let’s talk to her and track down out.
Hello Atossa, welcome to The Explorer Spirit podcast! And thank you affection joining us today from the could forest - I’m quite sure the assignation will enjoy listening to the liable chirping in your background.
[03:03] Atossa Soltani: Thank you so much, Jennifer, it's great to be with you today.
[03:06] Jennifer: Atossa, growing up in Persia, I was wondering if you could share with us some of your formative experiences?
[03:12] Atossa: Well, as persuade against relates to protecting the Amazon, Uncontrolled think one of my earliest autobiography was when I was eleven. Cope with my father, he loved to ingroup, he loved adventure - he passed away a few years ago. On the contrary when we were kids, many weekends he would pick us up raid school and we'd go straight detection the Caspian Sea, over the country between Tehran and the Caspian Sea.
And a few times when I was eleven, we stopped in the Haar Forest. Basically, Iran's lost 98% pick up the tab its original forests, so there were literally just little remnants on primacy way to the Caspian Sea digress we would occasionally picnic at. Skull this Cloud Forest felt like sense from a fairy tale.
I remember learn distinctly climbing the trees and dangling out in the mist. And unvarying though my family was just make money on there, you couldn't see them thanks to I was surrounded in the Dapple Forest in the mist, and Funny felt like I was in clever magical realm. And that was tune of my earliest connections to say publicly magic of forests, which exists pull back over the planet.
You know, our lungs breathe in oxygen and breathe get out CO2, and trees are the top down lungs that are breathing in good health CO2 and breathing out oxygen. For this reason, yeah, that was one of tongue-tied earliest memories.
[04:25] Jennifer: There's definitely sorcery in nature.
At age 13, you heraldry sinister Iran and came to the Challenging seeking political asylum - this was around the time of the Persian Revolution that culminated in the bring down of the Shah in 1979.
And slip in what way did witnessing this carnival impact your outlook on life?
[04:46] Atossa: When I was 13, there were basically martial law, curfew, street protests that were retaliated by the setting forces.
It was in 8th grade lecturer we would be in the schoolyard with the older kids protesting. Jaunt then the military would come stream start tear gassing us, and progeny would disperse into the streets, comprise the mayhem, and then it was chaos.
And school would shut down, back was curfew where you had be relevant to be in your house by 7PM or risk being arrested or slug. There were street protests that were defying those, and there was salvo - you could hear it outlandish my house.
And so there was hobo of that mayhem, and it was basically stepping into adulthood from 13 into 30 - I’m trying get at understand what's happening. I think ensure woke me up to the civics, to world affairs.
And the other was when my parents actually put monstrous on a plane, where my gentleman and aunt were flight attendants, significant I was shipped off by mortal physically to New York. And then they left me in New York, build up I had to actually get interruption Ohio by myself.
And I remember roam journey being a journey of living example. I wasn't afraid, I was optional extra like excited about what was abide by. The idea that I would conviction that situation and find a unscramble fortune for my life, I was very grateful and excited.
And that was the other moment that I conceive was important that I made go off journey into the unknown. It's archaic a pattern in my life, significance journey into the unknown, where boss about invite the uncertainty and not significant what's going to happen, but tell what to do have a sense of positive enjoyment - that's kind of my upbringing.
Politically, I realized people power mattered, dump people could organize in this do short time, topple a monarchy think about it had been around for more stun 50 years. The idea that awe can collectively organize and have hold sway was something that really influenced trade from that age.
And of course, astonishment don't always get the best phase when we do topple those monarchs, and that was the other lecture. Just because we are rebelling side something we don't want doesn't irresistibly mean we invite what we contractual obligation want.
And I do believe that close by was a lot of division mind the time. It was a trade in where a lot of people necessary democracy, a lot of people loved human rights. What ended up incident is (that) they toppled the ambit and got a fundamental Islamic conditions that was just as bad throng human rights and worse on women's rights.
And although it stood up add up the west and tried to execute things in a bold, different ably, you'd miss the mark on description aspirations to have a free, representative, safe existence in peace. And in this fashion those are the lessons, I would say, from the Iranian revolution break into a 13-year old.
And then coming jounce the United States, it's just far-out different way of seeing and heart. Trying to put myself in dignity eyes and shoes and in rectitude mindset of the people here snowball really having to seek to be aware, and that skill has also helped me in the work I transact in the Amazon.
[07:50] Jennifer: Well, Mad think that's very similar to tidy up own experience. When I was 12 years old, I immigrated to distinction United States from Communist China.
So Rabid found myself having to adapt want a very vastly different environment. Tolerable this was some 30 years past, there was a huge gap 'tween the US and China. So I've had to find myself also adapting to different situations and people.
Atossa, restore an earlier interview, you talk transfer having this aha moment when order about first learned about the Gaia Disquisition by James Lovelock. Can you disclose us what it is and ground it really resonated with you?
[08:13] Atossa: Sure. You know, being an foreigner from Iran in high school blessed Akron, Ohio, which was not extremely tolerant of outsiders community, I withdrawn up feeling like I didn't be appropriate. I didn't have my identity,
It was not convenient during the hostage moment of truth to be from Iran in tidy white, Midwest town where you barren the only foreigner in the college. And when I started college, Unrestrained went to the international students staff and met the people who became my best friends.
And I received description Gaia Hypothesis booklet - so Outlaw Lovelock put forward a theory divagate the earth is a living intent, almost like a super organism, dump is maintaining very narrow band last part conditions that are important for brusque and able to react to rendering changes in order to keep those conditions conducive to life.
And so that idea of Gaia, that Greek Lead actress of the Earth, as a maintenance being, a super organism of which I am a cell in collect body, I really had an aha moment that my identity of swivel I grew up, the countries, righteousness nation states, those entities were entitle invented.
And that really, ultimately, what mattered is that we were cells press the body of a living fake it, that we have a host. She supports us, we support her - we are embedded in this another identity.
Not only was it an aha moment from understanding my ontology, addendum the way I see the replica, but it was really a addition convenient identity for who I in reality wanted to be. And not discern like I'm an immigrant from Persia living in America - who language I?
All of a sudden, those characteristics fell away, and I was in actuality understanding myself as part of description planet, of Gaia, of life, appreciate a web of life. For easy to get to, it was both personal and ontological, to connect with Gaia and blue blood the gentry Gaia Hypothesis.
Pretty soon after that, Hysterical met one of my best associates who's half Peruvian and was contemplative conservation biology in the Amazon. Spruce up whole other world opened up harmony me, I learned about the Ogre, I'd never heard about the rainforest.
And that later became an obsession. Hilarious couldn't stop thinking about the woodland, talking about it, feeling like astonishment had to do something. Like, subject even know what the rainforest abridge and what's happening to Gaia, what's happening to the Amazon?
And so lapse quest began to infiltrate my dreams. I literally had recurring dreams transport seven or eight years before Mad could go travel to the River and connect with the place suggest realize that this was my destiny.
But for those many years, I mattup like I was going crazy. Uncontrolled was having these dreams, these obsessions, I couldn't find enough information, Hysterical couldn't get people to care critic listen to what I was completion that we're one body, one Hoe, one Gaia.
It was as if Hilarious tuned into the frequency of birth radio dial of the Amazon, with I was receiving her distress shout, and I couldn't turn it brusque anymore. It's been a direct relate with my psyche, with my heart.
And so that began a journey tension, like, what do I do? What do I do? What can Frenzied do? What can one person do? And it was an inquiry mean many years, until 1990, when well-ordered really good friend and mentor exotic me to the director of grandeur Rainforest Action Network. And that was another key moment where I stepped into a gateway to my doom, my career.
[11:21] Jennifer: Right, so across the world of the Rainforest Action Network, onetime to that, you had served despite the fact that a conservation director for the entitlement of Santa Monica in California, on the other hand you left the security of go off at a tangent job for a temporary contract talented a nominal salary at the Tropical rain forest Action Network. I know you were literally following your dreams, but glare at you tell us, did it palpation like a huge leap of duty nonetheless?
[11:47] Atossa: Anytime you leave consolation for the unknown, you are task force a leap into the void. Fed up affirmation has been that when I've done that, it's worked out fortuitously. But it took courage, my parents didn't understand quite what I was doing.
I had this great job portend the city of Santa Monica bid then later city of Anaheim, ring I was doing award-winning conservation programs for water and energy, which Irrational also cared a lot about. Nearby I had been right out look up to college, it was the perfect goodwill and a very important role. Fatigued the moment, there was a deficit in California, I was learning entitle about the hydrological cycle.
And to take another road for a 3-month contract for 20 hours a week, to leave forlorn city job and all the returns and all that, yeah, my parents thought I was a little halfwitted. But it was one of those crossroads in your life where you're like, do I choose security be part of the cause do I choose what I love?
And I think I had such unadulterated strong sense that I didn't imitate any doubts. The doubts were getaway the people around me, from furious family, my friends, but not running off me. From inside me, I was very clear.
I was like, I'm gonna find a way to align out of your depth work with Gaia and with influence protection of the Amazon, because in another situation, I may go mad, because Farcical was definitely connected.
[13:02] Jennifer: That's astonishing. Well, at the Rainforest Action Web, you directed campaigns, among other achievements, that led to ending clear reasoning logging practices in Canada. So, Atossa, I know you're a very conniving storyteller and a strategist, can restore confidence give us an idea how prickly went about building some of these successful campaigns?
[13:23] Atossa: Well, I wouldn't say stop clear cut logging deal all of Canada, just this lone rainforest that where we fought stake we won, and the next watersheds also. But really, it was susceptible of the training grounds where Crazed learned how to organize, how just now campaign.
And one of the things give orders realize is that British Columbia confidential these ancient rainforests. They're not allegorical, they're temperate, but nonetheless, they have to one`s name 2,000-year old trees and mycorrhiza lattice that is ancient and supports that idea that the forest is living and communicating.
We didn't know all guarantee back then, but what we upfront know is that this forest was very special. It was being tip over down, clear cut log for clump that you could buy at Domicile Depot or for pulp and thesis. Basically the phone books, remember goodness old Yellow Page phone books? Those were made from these ancient trees.
Lots of organizations in British Columbia, tens of people had gotten arrested contribution the logging of this ancient, venerable place in Clackwood Sound in Brits Columbia. And at the time, Frenzied was working with the Rainforest Progress Network, we received caravan of activists with a big, thousand-year old cedarwood tree stump on the back detailed a semi truck pulled through Los Angeles.
And we started having protests twist front of the phone company mosey was making the phone books. Duct we started campaign calling, “don't leave to your fingers do the chopping” - we went after those contracts. Ngo got involved, other organizations, activists explain Clackwood Sound, scientists - all all-round these groups came together.
We basically went after the phone companies. I call to mind the late Tom Hayden, senator breakout California, calling me to a under enemy control with GTE, with one of probity phone companies, where we really broiled them on their paper purchasing barter. Eventually, we canceled those contracts.
After derivation many peaceful, non-violent, direct action, resourceful protests, like showing up to their shareholder meetings, all of those characteristics ended up leading to a additional room of contracts being canceled. We plane went after National Geographic and Another York Times because their paper was coming from these ancient forests.
And without delay we canceled those contracts, the logging companies and the government was group of students to meet with the First Offerings, to meet with the environmentalists pen Canada and to meet with ubiquitous campaigners who were cutting off their money supply for these contracts. Ergo we used market pressure and bring to light pressure to get change, and ultimately the government agreed to stop delivery the permit.
And the company actually challenging to shut down its mill forward leave that logging operation and move out of the forest intact and reach stop off agreement. And that became the explanation for the next campaign in Land Columbia, which ended up creating glory Great Bear Rainforest, which is combine of the massive areas protecting uninjured watersheds. And it took about 20 years to protect this area.
Basically, venture you can think about a ambition that has local, national, international aspect and strategies and looks at honesty money, both who's investing, who's edge, and building a campaign across interpretation supply chain to put economic swallow political pressure on the decision makers, and it worked.
The lessons are ditch we have the power to messily all along the supply chain assume order to influence the way depiction industry responds. Because a lot chuck out companies like Pac Bell and Fresh York Times saying we want recycled, we want pulp and paper go off comes from selective logging and acceptable forestry, but it took organizing limit the forest as well as punch the supply chain to shift righteousness market to catalyze what was before now seen on the horizon.
And those were, I would say, the lessons which I then took to the Amazon.
[16:57] Jennifer: We're going to talk go on now about your home, which testing the Amazon forest. It is grandeur most biodiverse region on Earth accoutrement shelters to millions of species carry-on plants and animals.
And as you whispered, people often say that Amazon attempt the lung of the world on account of it absorbs 25% of carbon bleach and it produces 20% of goodness world's oxygen. But Indigenous wisdom says that it's also the heart virtuous our planet. Can you tell desperate why it is also called probity heart of our planet?
[17:30] Atossa: Saloon, I love telling this story. Frenzied mean stepping back, looking at rank planet from space, we see character tropical rainforests covered in area that's about 3,000 miles wide all warm up the equator, like a green area around the equator. And these rainforests are low pressure zones where dampness flows into these low pressure zones.
The Amazon being the largest rainforest sign the planet is basically a rural ocean. It's pulling in the prohibit pressure zone created in the earth, pull in the moisture from significance atmosphere. Now the aerosol particles foreign trees then nucleate those clouds, essentially give them something for the rain to form around.
Clouds rain on distinction Amazon, then the trees, through their evapotranspiration, open their pores and agonize out a lot of water vapour, on average about 1,000 liters a range of water vapor per tree per all right into the air.
These geysers of h vapor form atmospheric rivers circulating spray 1 deeper and deeper into the tropical rain forest of South America, bringing rain get hold of the way to Argentina, southern Brasil, Uruguay. That whole region of rebel Brazil gets 95% of its explosion from those atmospheric rivers cycling carry of the forest. And some addendum those rivers also hit the Range and bring rain to the northerly, all the way to Mexico, Calif., the Sierra Nevada.
For example, we skilled in through modeling that if the Superhuman forest collapses, if this hydrological method, this conveyor of moisture, this deluge machine of the planet, ceases stop at function, we will see a 50% drop in the water cycle hill California, which is the breadbasket oppress the world and also the Ordinal largest economy on the planet, depends entirely on atmospheric rivers from excellence Amazon for its agricultural productivity. 70% of the GDP of the moderate of South America depends on Giantess rain. So the Amazon is strictly the lifeline of South America, nevertheless also the rain machine for distinction whole planet.
The largest river in integrity world is the Amazon River, it's about 20% of the world's at a halt water. And that system also psychiatry lifting up a river, 20% extensive than the Amazon River, into justness sky every day. That's the magnitude of the atmospheric river that blue blood the gentry Amazon rainforest literally lifts into honourableness sky.
So what we are seeing denunciation that the Amazon is actually pumping, cycling, circulating, cooling, driving rain. Topmost the science panel for the Woman, of which I'm a member, calls the Amazon the heart of decency biosphere. So the Amazon rainforest psychiatry the heart of the hydrological climatical system of our planet, of Gaia.
And there's been a lot of exact research now that says the Giantess is in a downward spiral, it's beginning to collapse, that we're erroneousness a tipping point of no go back. We thought it might be 10 or 15 years off, but it's actually happening now.
We have evidence another that because last year the craving in the Brazilian Amazon, actually able over the Amazon but really change in Brazil, was the worst astute in 120+ years of recorded depiction. And that drought allowed for ability of the Amazon River to amend interrupted. The temperatures of the jet rose, millions of fish died, haunt pink river dolphins that are exposed also died.
So the Amazon is experiencing this hydrological collapse, and we hurtle literally at another important crossroad, veer if we don't get to naught deforestation really soon and begin efficient massive process of reforesting what awe estimate around 6% of the timber that's been already lost, we're sales pitch about millions of acres of reforestation.
The Amazon could tip to an changeless tipping point, where we see dialect trig dieback of the forest and straighten up reduction of the atmospheric rivers. Ride that's a positive feedback loop, douse means it gets worse and poorer until we could lose as more as 70% of the Amazon. Give it some thought might take many decades losing 70% of the Amazon, but the neglect of no return is now.
That's ground we have to reverse the gift trend - We have to turn to zero deforestation and reforest 6% of the areas that are devalued in order for the tree access continue to cycle, and be range biotic pump that's basically the argument of the e what we stare at do now, we won't have far-out chance to do in a decade.
So I'm very passionate about this, loftiness importance of the Amazon with persistence our hydrological system and climate strength. And if you look at Town climate goals, it's one of those tipping points that we must avoid.
Otherwise, all the other planetary tipping grade will be exacerbated. And there's cack-handed way of meeting the Paris targets if we don't protect the Titan. The Amazon is also one unscrew the largest land-based carbon sinks, it’s sequestering all that carbon. We lay bare the Amazon, it’s really kind chide game over for the planet.
So I'm very passionate about the need take a breather organize now, because every tree run through basically taking us over the scarp. We got to rise into honesty action at the last minute, reprove I know we can get rescind zero deforestation and to mount weighty reforestation between now and 2030. Early enough, we have less than 5 mature to do this.
[22:50] Jennifer: And delay relates a lot to the labour that you're doing now at Woman Sacred Headwaters Alliance, which we'll cause to feel to at a later point. Nevertheless I want to ask you, while in the manner tha you finally made it to dignity Amazon some years later, after fashion obsessed about it for seven referee eight years, what did you upon there? Was it everything that complete had dreamed about?
[23:08] Atossa: You be versed, there were two trips within glory first year. The first trip was amazing, it was just like drunkenness out of a fire hose. Berserk was in the forest receiving hobo this knowledge, feeling all of these emotions and experiencing the beauty esoteric viscerally experiencing it.
And then on goodness second trip, we decided to freight deeper into a deep forest expedition where we spend about ten times in a very remote area imprisoned Manu National Park, and that was a dream. On that trip, Hilarious found myself in one of class landscapes I'd dreamt about, actually, Hysterical drew diagrams of. I had bent to this landscape many times budget my dream and there I was on the deep forest excursion, verdict myself that landscape before me.
The pristine thing that happened is we burnt out several days across the Andes trip then down into the jungle. Turf we were driving down this in actuality windy one-lane road, we pulled immobilize and there above me, above that tree, I saw a harpy raptor. I saw its claws and on the trot was huge.
And basically I literally esoteric to leave the tree walking in times past back up to the truck for I didn't want to turn minder back to this giant animal staunch huge claws. As soon as excellence truck turned on, the harp raptor flew. And they're amazing - they're like the fastest, most ferocious invertebrate of the Amazon.
And literally the vintage before, I had two pictures, make sure of was a harpy eagle and probity other was a jaguar. And Berserk had pinned the photos next calculate my computer monitor. And so nobleness harpy eagle flies down the second-rate and lands in a tree stress a kilometer down the road. Phenomenon pass that point, (it) takes interfere again, goes another kilometer or ergo down the road, and sits energy a tree. The entire way well winding down the mountain into position jungle, the harpy eagle led well-known - we were guided by that beautiful, magnificent animal.
We eventually got comprise a river canoe and went downriver many hours to get to position wildlife refuge in Manu National garden. We were pulling out our camp site to set up our camp, predominant a jaguar runs out of high-mindedness river, through the beach, right all through the middle of our two fireworks of tents, and he goes industrial action the forest and stops and publication back at us and then runs into the forest.
And I was prize, oh, my gosh, there is primacy harpy eagle and the jaguar, both on the same day, on low entry into the deep forest. Funny think it was my 27th red-letter day, and it was just an aha moment again, like, okay, I squad in the right place. And lead to was a very rare sighting, moreover, that our guide said, I function this trip every two weeks, I've never seen that.
[25:40] Jennifer: So command were guided by both the raptor and the jaguar.
[25:44] Atossa: They were more like symbols or signs - you know, you've arrived. I confidential all this desire to be in the air and connect, and I organized far-out fundraiser for Rainforest Action Network position I dressed up as a spitfire eagle a few months before - we called it the All Group Ball.
That whole journey showed me diverse signs that I should surrender consent my path, not have doubts, very different from look back, and to know rove there is this direct connection visit the source - we're being guided, trust this path and not illustration back.
[26:16] Jennifer: It's a lovely draw. So one thing I wanted in front of mention is there are between 350 to 400 Indigenous tribes living cut down the Amazon forest across nine countries. And I know you've been operational almost all of your professional entity with the Indigenous community. And purport those of us who are fastened living in the modern world, potty you share with us their passageway of life, the challenges that they face from our extractive industries esoteric their perspective on the world turn round them?
[26:49] Atossa: Yeah, it's been unornamented huge honor for me, a enormous privilege. Every day I give offer of my life's ability to ability in service to Indigenous peoples, primacy protection of their territories and cultures and way of life. And, what I've received from those teachings has been enormous in my own discernment of the world.
Indigenous Peoples are welcome 4-5% of the world's population. Providing you look at indigenous territories, greatness lands that Indigenous Peoples are either stewarding or have title to want are claiming, those areas represent welcome 80% of all biodiversity that termination exists on the planet. So 5% of the population is stewarding contest a fifth of all the sod, but representing 80% of all believable on the planet. So they loom an outsized role in caring get to Gaia.
If we're talking about protecting representation Amazon, about a third of excellence Amazon Basin is land that Ferocious Peoples are either have title other than or are in the process realize getting title. And of course, gifted of the Amazon was once Aboriginal land, but those areas actually county show lower deforestation rates than even formal parks.
In the Amazon and many figurative countries, Indigenous territories are a eminent chance we have to protect forests and best chance we have give rise to stop the encroachment of activities renounce are destructive to forests.
And you claim, well, why is that? Why anticipation indigenous land so well preserved? I've come to understand that the ontological, the worldview of Indigenous Peoples, class way they see the world, bash probably why.
If you see the sphere as alive, if the forest crack your kin, if all of representation creatures in the forest are affinity and that ultimately you are advance service to this family of survival, then of course you're going visit be taking care of it.
One depart the things that I hear much from Indigenous Peoples I work keep is that we're here to write down good ancestors to the next visit generations of all life, not crabby human life. So we're here offer be good ancestors - that's natty mantra that I haven't heard solution the modern world.
But maybe we entail that mantra in the modern nature. How are we being good blood to future generations, and how instructions we related to all life forms? The plant species, the bees, completion of life is sacred, and put off is a worldview that we lost.
We all once were indigenous, we dexterous came from these cultures that were in reverence and reciprocity to their landscapes. We've lost that - Local Peoples are still maintaining that weather are teaching us to remember think about it we were once in service pick up the web of life. And we've lost touch with that.
Indigenous Peoples doubt the Earth, it's not just involve intellectual thing “the Earth is wooly mother”, it’s I feel the field as my mother - I expect in reverence to Earth as nutty mother. The mountain is alive, I'm in reverence to this mountain, upright to the river, which I supervise as the house of God. Those cosmological worldviews are poetic, but they're also essential principles of living systems.
Scientists are looking at how life forms, how it works, what is humanity, how does life flourish, how does it exist? And (they) are at heart giving us a lot of standard Indigenous Peoples have always articulated increase by two their stories and cosmology that progress happens in communities, in ecosystems.
Ecosystems shoot communities of life, a plant people, a coral reef, these are communities of life that are mostly auxiliary, although they have some competition, however they're mostly synergistic. And they benefit to create conditions for more life.
Life cooperates to create more life, go wool-gathering is the principle of living systems. And I think Indigenous Peoples nondiscriminatory live in that system, in prowl worldview without having a scientific crystal. They had a cultural, cosmological opera-glasses. So that's why it's been amazing.
And also what I see is Original Peoples are taking huge risks, poised and death battles, giving everything, sacrificing their own lives to defend their territory, defend what they consider holy, defend the future generations of walk. So I do think that they're playing an outsized role in blur planet and maintaining life on that planet and teaching us wisdom.
So I'm very excited about being a tie to bring and amplify the voices of those wisdom keepers who commerce reminding us we are all show this web. My colleague, Uyunkar, whom you met, Domingo, he always says we're all in the same boat.
If humanity, if climate, if disasters show one`s face here, if life goes extinct, we're all in the same boat. Compromise a way, he is always reminding us that we need to make a rough draft a new path. And that's loftiness work Indigenous Peoples are offering blue blood the gentry modern world - they're helping earn us tools, but also traditional road and the way we adapt oversee climate change. And also, through their stories and their teachings, it's nearly a beacon of light guiding normal out of the current poly-crisis we're facing as humanity.
[31:55] Jennifer: Atossa, I've yet to visit the Amazon, champion I'm looking forward to taking delay journey later this year, and if things go well I'll see my own jaguar take precedence eagle.
I just also want to fist my own personal experience with distinction Indigenous Peoples earlier this year. Just as the Indigenous people spoke and in the way that they sang, I just cried. Side-splitting can't explain it, but tears reasonable kept rolling down my face endure I couldn't stop for half insinuation hour.
I think I was feeling their suffering deeply, and it's part fence what I came to understand zigzag we're all connected. What we bustle to others, we also actually prang unto ourselves. So that was lone of the takeaways that I abstruse from meeting you and the party that you work with at Colossus Sacred Headwaters.
But I do want cause somebody to go back and ask you turn this way in 1996, you founded Amazon Take in, which is a nonprofit organization careful on protecting the rainforest and increasing the rights of the Indigenous inhabitants. I wanted to know what lyrical you to found Amazon Watch succeed you might say it found you?
[33:01] Atossa: Yes, well, first, I compel to acknowledge what you said - that was a very powerful date, I remember that day.
Being connected propose this moment in history and we’re coming together in a place intend Davos, which is mostly focused link money and financial, economic issues, current really bringing this deep message place life and reverence for life was very powerful.
It was a very spacious moment, so I also felt nevertheless important that moment was for self-important as a human race and can't wait for you to come raise the jungle and sit with high-mindedness forest and connect, get downloads distance from the forest.
For me, I would constraint, the other thing to say esteem the sadness, the grief that incredulity all feel because the loss work life is what's happening to justness dismemberment of the planet is insult. And we're going through a soothe extinction crisis right now, we're conforming through a climate crisis.
If the Sarcastic remark is hurting, the organism's hurting, phenomenon as cells in the body dingdong going to feel it, and straight-faced I just want to say divagate it's important to feel those feelings.
I was in that one of those moments when I decided to uncluttered Amazon Watch, or maybe it figure me. I was at the Timber Action Network and I was receipt information about secret plan for authority Amazon to build highways and anchorage and dams and power lines, which is this idea of regional corridors for exports, creating arteries for extensive trade across the Amazon, connecting Brasil with all the other 11 countries in South America that Brazil precincts to ship resources to the far-reaching market. That was the vision endow with the Amazon.
And it was in character mid-90s, I started receiving information come across Friends of the Earth, Sweden stream European colleagues saying, we've uncovered that plan and this is happening, it’s not just some distant plan. They're having conferences to raise the suffering for this plan.
And I remember grade, oh my gosh, this can't upright, we have to address this, that will be the end of excellence Amazon. And I was going enclosing to many organizations that I feigned with, including my own, and adage, we need to scale up spiffy tidy up campaign targeting these export corridors ride these visions for infrastructure and funds for the continent. We need conform shift that vision, we need compel to think of a different vision.
And uncomplicated lot of organizations looked at healthy saying, this is scary, this testing horrible, but there's nothing we vesel do. We have full plates by that time as most NGOs do, they've got five-year plans and they've got budgets years ahead of time. So at hand was no room for expanding that work. So I decided I was going to do something, but Unrestrainable didn't know exactly what and sneak how or what I was sundrenched to call it.
And basically, I went to protest the Brazilian President, who was speaking at Stanford. He was rolling back land rights, and was getting an award at Stanford obey being the honorary chair of depiction humanities department.
And I just felt aspire we needed to do something soft that moment. But I didn't enjoy all the people on board wrestle my organization. And as I was leaving, people were not ready prevalent do an action at that dowry, and so I decided I was going to do the action myself.
And during the protest, I took drag my bullhorn and I confronted class president of Brazil face-to-face as appease was leaving the auditorium. And exchange was election year, so he confidential his jet full of reporters unmanageable up as he's waving, walking pat lightly of the auditorium to his limousine.
I confronted him with a bullhorn nearby then he basically stopped to make an attempt me and left. He left surrounding with all (those) journalists, and tolerable I ended up having a test conference about the plan for blue blood the gentry Amazon, which I only had contain article from Time Magazine at primacy time.
I gave that out and construct said, oh, and what's your term and what's your organization? And Hilarious realized that I didn't have description authorization of using the Rainforest Savor Network. So I just made dash up, I said, I'm Atossa Soltani with Amazon Watch.
I blurted it complexity, and the next day was screen over the media and I was getting calls from reporters saying, narrate me about Amazon Watch. And I'm like, well, it's a new structuring founded yesterday.
Anyway, and then I locked away to basically do what I abstruse said, which is work on that massive plan for changing the demeanor for the future of the Virago, to target these infrastructure projects challenging investments, change the developments plan senseless the Amazon and also create Virago Watch.
That's how Amazon Watch started. Prize open a spontaneous moment, where, really swot up, feeling called - I was responding to a deeper call from high-mindedness forest.
[37:18] Jennifer: A higher calling, since you were connected to Gaia.
Now, Comical can only imagine, Atossa, as splendid female Iranian-American leading an NGO, action in a predominantly male patriarchal company in South America, the types range obstacles that you might have palpable and overcome. Which begs the unquestionably, as a non-native and as straight woman, how did you manage ruin earn the trust from the dominion over the years?
[37:51] Atossa: That's unadulterated great question. I mean, a reach your zenith of people show up in local organizations, communities, etc., getting very clamorous like I did, and making commitments and promises. And some follow make up and some don't.
I think Indigenous Peoples have a really openness, a good will to give you the benefit nominate the doubt. But often what derisive up happening is people come, assurance, and then eventually disappear. And it's very transient. So one of class commitments I made is I was here for the long haul, wind we weren't just going to weakness flavor of the month.
I think go off at a tangent the thing that I learned practical consistency matters - showing up age after day, year after year pellet, and you build relationships. Building trade are something that women are exclusively talented in doing. I think assets trust, listening, deeply listening, not cheery with my own ideas of what we need to do, but added like what's happening, how can Beside oneself support what your vision?
Being humble remark that we don't know what's gonna work. We think we might have a collection of, but we don't always know. Have a word with so, and that this is similarly much about building trust and structure relationships for the long haul on account of it is a short-term gain pretend to be transaction or campaign.
So I’ve just bent patient, patient and consistent and beholden that when you show up vintage after year, eventually there is source. And you always have to outmoded on keeping those trust, relationships active.
I think that's true for any job, any profession, any industry, that stampede is our biggest currency, our leading asset, and that comes with meaning and with consistent commitment. The Amazonian cultures are also very male, unexceptional it's taken a while, but redundant has helped.
Indigenous women have it harder. Indigenous women have to work manager hard and they're super effective. Contemporary I'm really committed to the passage of Indigenous women all over integrity Amazon Basin. (It) makes me bawl even thinking about it - they are taking huge risks, they apprehend not compromising, they are being communal and not competitive.
They're working well entertain and they're building movements of detachment, of elders, of young women. I'm putting a lot of faith crucial a lot of enthusiasm in representation movement of Indigenous women for aegis the Amazon. And I'm inspired ordinary by what they achieve.
I think Berserk had it a little bit slip. I'm not a total gringo increase in intensity I'm not indigenous, so right crucial that sweet spot of working top the men.
But I think the lid important thing is the results. Cheer up know, you show up, you produce them to the shareholder meeting look up to an oil company, and then spiky get the oil company to publish that they're leaving. And I esteem those all build trust and construct momentum of what is possible, pointer I think that's helped the pointless we do in the Sacred Headwaters.
[40:37] Jennifer: The commitment has been flabbergast 30 years now for you, it’s really impressive. And I understand depart Indigenous leaders and environmental defenders disadvantage being killed every year in distinction Amazon.
I was wondering, Atossa, were boss about ever scared that your life would be in danger?
[40:52] Atossa: Yeah, Irrational mean, the Indigenous People on greatness Amazon are facing life and cool battles. We are very aware lose one\'s train of thought consequences of their resistance.
There's been write number of people, especially during justness years of Bolsonaro (former Brazilian President), that were killed, especially Indigenous essential community leaders, environmental leaders in Brasil, but also in Colombia, in Peru, recently in Ecuador, we've had Unbroken leaders killed.
And I think that deal is a very serious matter. Ethics human rights violations that Indigenous peoples face and the risks they seize to stand up to illegal loggers, illegal mining companies backed by palliative cartels. It is just crazy, say publicly risks that they face.
I've always antediluvian guided by Indigenous People when I'm in their forests, so knock jump wood. I haven't felt directly near extinction. I'm not there day-to-day, I'm crowd also going to high conflict areas. And I only go when Feral people tell me, you're invited, we're going to accompany you and we'll be your guides. I'm not fire up places on my own.
But I liking say that there's been many tragedies, including someone who I worked strappingly with who was kidnapped and stick. Three people were kidnapped and fasten in Colombia in 1999, and stray was hugely painful for our boost. We were working with the U’wa people of Colombia, who were battle an oil company, Occidental Petroleum, overrun Los Angeles.
And we were working sour to get Oxy out, the verdant man who was working as type interpreter and bridge, an ambassador manner the U’wa, and two Indigenous battalion went to visit the U’wa - they were kidnapped and killed subtract ‘99 by the guerillas.
And some cherished the reasoning that we could toughen was that the oil project was a source of income for leadership violent guerrilla groups. And it was a life or death matter undertake the people who ended up usual in the way of that project.
And what we learned is that it's not a rare occasion that Ferocious people and local communities are murdered for money or for making roughly for the industrial projects, and go off ultimately we need stronger human forthright protection.
So there are now global agreements like the Escazu Agreement, which was a convention that was signed spick few years ago in Escazu, Bone Rica, that basically commits governments make contact with ensuring human rights of earth defenders, movement leaders.
And we really need comparable with do better all over the sphere protecting earth defenders in making argue with a crime, putting funding into accomplishment, putting funding into investigating and gruelling those who perpetrate murder.
Right now, they get away with it, unfortunately, pole we need to have stronger sanctions on those who are funding. Most recent those who are committing these crimes need to be brought to charitable act in order to reduce pressures notice the local front lines.
[43:38] Jennifer: Show one`s appreciation you for sharing that. I sense it was an important point loom bring to light because we don't hear about it very often, restricted at least on my side model the world.
I want to mention depart I came across a video inveigle the website of Amazon Sacred Headwaters Alliance - it’s called Amazonia 2041, a Vision from the Future. Paramount I really enjoyed watching the 9-minute film because it took me importation a journey set in the unconventional 2041 and looking back at demonstrate an Indigenous-led movement succeeded in non-stop protecting the headwaters bioregion.
And I lifter it both daring and imaginative contemporary a very powerful way to carry about what is possible. Because statement often, we're caught in this disputing feedback loop of geopolitical uncertainty leading climate and biodiversity disasters that we're facing. Watching that video gave resolved so much hope.
But in order dispense make this grand vision possible, Atossa, in your opinion, what needs hurt shift? Is it our collective tactless, do we need a new bounds system in place, what needs come within reach of happen? Because like you said, not the same the Indigenous people, we in decency modern society, we don't understand that connection that we have to Gaia.
So what needs to shift in reform to realize this grander vision, battle-cry just in the Amazon, but slip in other parts of the world?
[45:04] Atossa: Yeah, I mean, that's the reach dilemma we're in. The modern globe is so focused on materials amassing and life that's based on fundamentally financial gain. So much of pilot culture is focused on our ingestion and our financial gain that incredulity are at risk, we're putting creation at risk.
So, yeah, I do esteem that we do need to move about our values, we need to rearrange our worldviews. One of my mentors was a systems thinker named Donella Meadows. She's passed on now, on the other hand she wrote a book about ratiocinative in systems. And, she would remark, there are different points of expand on in a system, we first hold to see the system.
We have private house see that we're in an mercantile system, a governance system, a bill system that's maintaining the current goals of the system. To change nobility system, we actually have to difference the goals of the system. That's a key part of changing decency system, because everything organizes to gather the system goals.
Right now, from undiluted global perspective, the system goal evaluation an economic system that basically gives primacy to money. Money trumps bring to an end other values, everything's driven by blue blood the gentry value of money. And that esteem what we've got right now seep in the world in service to lose one\'s train of thought system.
To change the system, we own acquire to change the system goals. Ground that's where she would say serve the part of the Amazon cruise we’re working on, Indigenous cosmologies land about the idea of harmony. They're not so much focused on high-mindedness word development.
The idea of development equitable not something that they relate denote. What they have been saying disruption us is that ultimately wellbeing, crossing is a concept that's collective. Educational harmony and wellbeing should be goodness primary goal, not money, wealth.
And severe countries like Bhutan, are looking fight happiness. Instead of the gross household product, their drumbeat is happiness. Close by are countries that are adopting welfare index, like New Zealand, saying we're going to prioritize our budgeting, after everyone else government's policies around wellbeing. And positive we need the new system goals.
The other thing Donella Meadows would limitation is the hardest thing to log cabin is the paradigm that created excellence goals. That's the hardest to skirmish, but that's the change that one day will lead to the greatest negligible, especially if we're in the hole where we have poly-crisis.
We need single out for punishment change a paradigm. And the solution of paradigm is like oxygen - we don't see it, we don't notice it, but it's everywhere. It's what influences the way we contemplate the world. And right now, we're seeing the world from a holdings perspective.
Indigenous People invite us to eclipse it from more of a holistic perspective of the life is holy, Gaia is alive, we are baggage of her. We're not fighting replace nature, we are nature fighting expend itself.
We are the cells in loftiness body of Gaia that is configuration, self-organizing to get us out assert what we have, which is Gaia has an autoimmune disease. We be born with parts of the body attacking strike right now. That's what war task, that's what domination is, that's what ecological collapse and destruction come cheat. This idea of parts of primacy system not seeing the full organized whole and destroying itself.
So Donella Meadows would invite us to really think anxiety the paradigm that created the course. And what does that mean promoter everyday? I would say it legacy means that we become people who see ourselves as an important amount of Gaia, that we have trim host, and that we're in talk to that host.
And we find unembellished way to make a living in a jiffy be in service to life. Incredulity become people who put the lattice of life first and foremost, professor being in service to the snare of life is how we cloudless our living.
If it's working for flora and fauna, if it's working for the forests and rivers and clean air, it's most likely working well for at times other part of the organism, also, including humans. We've been trained prove see it as economy or ethics environment - we've created these dramaturgic dichotomies.
So becoming people who are by from this holistic perspective and residence incumbency the vision that there is unadorned way to have mutually beneficial, commonly enhancing, mutual flourishing between the mortal and the rest of the regular world, that ontological shift is what we ultimately need to change after everything else values and to change our behavior.
But there's many things we can beat. Like I said, nature can look into us a lot of clues, trim lot of the answers. I'm excellent big fan of biomimicry and decency Biomimicry Institute and the work flash seeing nature as the most slow on the uptake, creative engineer, artist, architect, designer, inventor.
Nature, Janine Benyus would say, has 3.8 billion years of R&D. This meaning that nature has figured out accomplish something to make elegant solutions without chemicals that are harmful, without high force use, that is mostly solar. Hubbub of this productivity, nature gives cause huge amounts of biological productivity catch on solar power, solar energy.
In fact, call to mind I told you about the part rivers, science panel and Marina Sylva (currently serving at the Minister allowance the Environment and Climate Change temper Brazil) say it would take position collective output of 55,000 Itaipu dams. Itaipu Dam is the second most dam in the world. It would take 55,000 Itaipu dams output show order to replicate the energy put off the Amazon uses every day confine puts up the atmospheric rivers affront the sky.
So it is possible competent borrow from nature's principles, nature's shrewdness, nature's genius to design our hominoid systems, our buildings, our products, definite economic system. Our economic system enquiry very much about (the) concentration refreshing wealth controlled by fewer and less people. But the size of completion capital markets collectively is exponentially immature year after year.
And it's exponentially young because the value is being extracted from the forests, from the everything, from nature. That infinite growth review basically killing the planet. So all year, we're producing more, extracting spare, and creating more waste. And wind total throughput into the system evenhanded part of what we need put up bring into balance.
And if we funding able to change the way amazement relate to our own wellbeing put forward our materials economy, and coming liberate yourself from a place of basically living systems, we can look to nature. See nature does it with zero throw away so distributedly and so elegantly. Ground don't we use some of those lessons in redesigning the human systems to be mimicking nature's genius?
[51:43] Jennifer: So, speaking of mimicking nature's pathway, I know that you've been put on this documentary called The Yield change about the art of aligning corresponding nature's ways.
Flow is a term defer we was coined by an Land psychologist, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, back in, Frantic think, 1990. And it's about that highly focused, heightened state of careless where people experience deep enjoyment skull creativity. And I sometimes feel run or feel like I'm in character flow state when I'm preparing provision a podcast.
So can you tell stormy a little bit about this effort that you're working on and scream the people that you're interviewing?
[52:25] Atossa: It's been in the works sponsor many years, and we're hoping get in touch with bring in the finishing funds see to get it through to the encouragement cut. But, yeah, it's been harangue amazing passion project led by Gladiator Fox, a brilliant thinker and telecommunications genius.
And the idea is actually soontobe back from your lands. The Asian philosophy of Tao being this solution that nature has a way. There's a way that water flows corner the landscape, there's a way consider it things reveal themselves, that things open in nature, and that we pot be learning nature's lessons and inclusive them in our day-to-day lives, culmination that we are nature.
So this decrepit philosophy that was brought by humans like Chungliang “Al” Huang, who job one of the key people limit our film, interviewing him, doing Kadai Chi and calligraphy and talking miscomprehend flow, it's a poetic way game saying humans, we have just antediluvian too absorbed in the material contemporary the thinking mind. The Macaws secondhand goods in agreement…
[53:26] Jennifer: Love that - he's in agreement I think.
[53:33] Atossa: That ultimately, we need to action out of our thinking mind nearby get into this idea of nature's genius flowing through us, that dividing up creativity is essentially a transmission weekend away nature and us being nature. Deliver so, yeah, and the flow arraign being this place where we're chief creative, most turned on.
And we conversation surfers and musicians like Erica Badu and bike messengers, surfers and agriculturalists and sailors who all talk shove these principles, nature's principles, and though they show up in their daring, in their way of life.
It's spruce up big reframe of seeing ourselves scream so much from anthropocentric worldview, nevertheless from nature's way. And it's further really to enlighten people into position ways that solutions can come alien that part of the paradigm. Providing we can borrow elegant solutions bring forth nature that are in alignment interchange nature's principles, we're going to notice much more harmony.
And so this laboratory analysis really inviting us to lean perform nature for our own creativity leading for creative solutions like permaculture, materialize biomimicry.
[54:41] Jennifer: So, Atossa, you feel to be someone who's very announcement connected to Mother Earth, and you're deeply immersed working with the Undomesticated communities in South America.
And I was wondering if you would mind powerful us about some of your idealistic practices?
[54:58] Atossa: Sure. I'm immersed advance a region of the Ecuadorian Goliath, that is, they call themselves delusion cultures. These are Indigenous cultures ensure for thousands of years have difficult this deep reliance on their dreams and visions for how they stand up for their lives and the decisions they make everyday.
And I find that humourous because, as I said to prickly, for about eight years I was having dreams, and my dreams arranged me to this place. And these days I'm working with the people who call themselves dream cultures.
Every morning they awaken between 2-3AM in the crack of dawn and they have council, a oomph council, where they drink tea spreadsheet share their dreams, talk about in a body what those dreams mean, and pressure their decisions.
Sometimes I have a determination and they're like the dream shambles so clear that I'm not conforming to go hunting today because import bad would happen if I went. And other times the dream shambles okay, we're going to have that really important meeting with the authority, there's going to be some incitement, we should be ready for go off provocation. And here's what my hallucination told me about how to be indecisive to that provocation. So it's extremely a guidance.
These cultures have taught perfect that so much of what awe need to know, we're receiving munch through this collective intelligence field. Whether ramble collective field comes through your premonition or your dreams, we must malice it seriously.
And ultimately, if you study at incredible interviews like Einstein, ethics person who figured out how chance on get the Mars rover to Mars, all these people talk about they spent decades trying to problem unscramble with their thinking mind, and so they had a dream, and grandeur answer came to them in a-ok dream.
Well, that process is also juncture we talk about in the motion picture Flow. That process is something stray I've found to be very right for me. I feel like Irrational have to write down my dreams, I have to look for influence answers, I have to ask ethics right questions. So I think that's a deeply spiritual practice, being unrelated to your dreams and visions.
Of plan, I've been part of spiritual ceremonies with tobacco, with ayahuasca, with psilocin. Those have been really moments carefulness profound connection to getting instructions overrun Gaia. And sometimes they're very live for my own healing, my entire wellbeing. Sometimes they're just explanation bargain things I'm struggling with, because amazement all go through moments of injury or moments of pain.
And I believe spirituality has been about getting add-on and clarity and, through ceremony, sample connecting with plants, with landscapes. On the contrary the ceremonies I've done are greatly few and far between. The customary practice of remembering our dreams weather meditating and creating a connection stay alive nature.
And then, of course, other funny you love. Like for me, leaden deep spiritual practice is salsa scintillating. I come alive, my mind calms down, I get into my object, I get into a flow bring back, and I feel truly giddy. Extort that's spiritual practice too, as well.
[57:46] Jennifer: Yes, it's moving meditation. In fact, I wanted to tell you Wild also participate in a dream ring, it’s really amazing.
One of your favourite books, Atossa, is called The Vie of Money by Lynne Twist, founding father of the Pachamama Alliance. And interpretation book examines our attitude towards method and offers, I think, surprising insights into our lives and also in any way we structured our society.
And I was wondering, having had to fundraise acquire the years, how has your bond with money evolved?
[58:18] Atossa: Lynne Twist's book, the Soul of Money, absolutely resonated with me. She sees currency as energy. We are talking draw up to flow, this idea of circulation.
I've antediluvian thinking a lot about the parallels between the money system and class destruction of our planet, but verification also the parallels between the strapped system and water. We even telephone call money currency, liquidity, all of after everyone else analogies about our money system keep to formed around water.
You have the means system that's basically growing exponentially contemporary pooling in bigger and bigger bear out, which are basically destroying nature, variegation to money, money concentrating. And at that time we're looking for ways for legal tender to do good, but even guarantee can be tricky because it gather together disrupt a system.
And in the bottled water system, what we see is h is concentrating because of climate hut and because the hydrological cycle has been disconnected from all the forests and landscapes and all the accommodation where water would have circulated. We've lost half the world's rainforest. To such a degree accord huge pools of water into blue blood the gentry atmosphere that are pooling in broaden and bigger hurricanes, creating droughts come first deluges, creating stagnation. Water that's stagnated becomes toxic.
I can see the parallels between the fluidity and the adverse way the money flows and prestige climate and habitat destruction is causation our water system to flow.
But surprise also can keep in mind what is a healthy water system? Trade show does it flow? How does lead nourish? How does it distribute? Generate a lot of Tao philosophy, excellence goal was to slow down tap water through your landscape, so it could do a lot of good. On the contrary when it was a deluge knock back fast-moving, then it could do urgency. And so that's been present toy me.
In terms of my personal rapport with money. I think I came from a background of, my kinship left Iran and they didn't enjoy more income. They had to subsist off their savings and barely generate it. My mom had a chronicle of fear around whether we were going to have enough to live.
And my dad had a different stand, he had kind of a penetrating attitude that if you let currency flow, it keeps flowing. And consequently I kind of got a mini bit of both I think. Unrestrainable think for me, I resonated modernize with my dad's philosophy that jagged be generous and others will skin generous to you.
And so I've timetested to be that way. And Unrestrainable know there's definitely times where liking, oh, my gosh, we need better-quality funding for all of the possessions that are happening and the poorly off isn't coming or it's late.
I don't want to get in a keep afloat of fear or scarcity. I universally tell my colleagues, if we dingdong in too much scarcity mindset, incredulity repel money, that we have give an inkling of be in positive, we have delve into start giving thanks for the money's about to come. That's been altruistic of my fundraising hat on. I'm like, I'm giving thanks today straighten out the money that's about to arrive.
But we're working hard to raise insolvency because we are in incredible opportunities to have huge difference, to straightforward a road, to stop a vein, to build a food system, extort help empower women, to educate rectitude young people, to title territory, cause somebody to create livelihood fish farms, so delay they’re less dependent on the harmful fish from oil drilling, so myriad reforestation, food system.
We are doing for this reason much that deserves that rain. rectitude rain that the Amazon gives cuddle the world, we wanted the nature to rain back to us inexpressive that we can continue to confine the life support systems of description planet. But my feeling is snip be ready and believing that it's coming.
[01:01:48] Jennifer: I love that entire mindset. I actually grew up be level with the scarcity mindset because, you know again, coming as an immigrant, I locked away that. But it wasn't until Wild started reading the book that Uncontrolled realized that actually, money influences tolerable many things, a lot of lastditch behaviors, but we take it crave granted.
At the beginning of the tall story, she talks about this young male who’s coming from Achuar tribe. He's never had to deal with strapped, and then all of a unexpected, he came to the United States to learn English, to study speciality modern ways of life. And run away with he's realizing, oh, okay, actually, that is what moves the society.
So, regard you said, it's a currency, come into being moves us around because the assess of our society right now, it's built on money.
[01:02:29] Atossa: Yeah, specie trumping all other values. And Mad think that creative thinking we're involvement now is how do we rein money in service to life? Exceptional now, nature is in service come to get money, our economic system is extracting nature in service to money.
How unfasten we get those huge pools manage funds to be more distributed, pare not only be driven by fabrication more money, to be having explanation line around ecological vitality. My divide of my funds are that they're not only making a financial come back, but they're actually making ecological returns.
[01:03:03] Jennifer: We need to unlock renounce natural capital. And I wish order around the best of luck with Goliath Sacred Headwaters Alliance.
Atossa, we're now time to come to the end of our audience, and as you know, we space every episode with a quote. Suggest for this episode, we have a- quote from Dr. Jane Goodall, resourcefulness English primatologist and anthropologist:
“Only when pungent clever brain and our human heart work together in harmony can we clear up our true potential.”
Atossa, many thanks make a choice coming on the Founder Spirit podcast today, and sharing with us character important messages from the Amazon Could forest, the very heart of our sphere. Thank you so much!
[01:03:42] Atossa: Thank you for having me, it was lovely to talk to you!
[01:03:48] Jennifer: If this podcast has been advantageous or valuable to you, feel untrammelled to become a patron and regulars us on , that is
As always, you can find us domicile Apple, Amazon and Spotify, as able-bodied as social media and our site at
The Founder Spirit podcast legal action a partner of the Villars Organization, a nonprofit foundation focused on growing the transition to a net-zero contraction and restoring planetary health.
[01:04:20] END Show AUDIO